Mistress Odette is just about the only person who can make me interested in medical fetish play. Her aesthetics and dedication to the kink are simply unparalleled.
In this conversation, we discuss our experiences as both professional dominatrixes and patients of the medical industrial complex.
Blunt:
I’m really excited to be here with you right now, and to have this time to talk about our interest in medical fetish. And potentially my disinterest in medical fetish.
Odette:
I feel like interest and disgust are so…
Blunt:
Yes, oh my God, they’re…
Odette:
…they’re good friends.
Blunt:
Truly. And I’ve been following your medical play content and I’m definitely somewhat aroused and somewhat horrified that you can make me feel sexual feelings about something that I find deeply traumatic, and haven’t found arousing before. So you can use that testimonial on your Yelp!
Odette:
Check.
Blunt:
I’m so interested in what got you into this, where your interests around medical play lay. And if you could talk a little bit about how you use that as a way to explore power dynamics?
Odette:
So, I started doing medical play very early on in my career as a Domme. One of my first sessions was enemas and that got me into exploring that dynamic, and it always spoke to me in an interesting way because I really like the power of being a trusted figure.
Blunt:
A trusted figure. Hot.
Odette:
A trusted figure. I can pervert it and as I’m exploring the medical fetish areas of like, “I’m a doctor, I’m a nurse, or I’m a specialist”, playing with the line when something becomes play because I use a lot of consensual non-consent in my sessions. So what I’ll usually do is use… I mean, only in play… but use gaslighting as a technique of like, “Oh, this isn’t inappropriate. You’re making this inappropriate.”
Blunt:
Gaslighting can be really hot in scenes, and should definitely be negotiated.
Odette:
Exactly, and…
Blunt:
It can be really triggering for people.
Odette:
Especially in medical play stuff.
Blunt:
Yeah, I can see that being super effective. I’ve had so many doctors gaslight me. Sounds great, sign me up…
Odette:
So it’s taking that feeling of powerlessness that you feel with a medical professional where you’re like, “I feel like I know my body and I trust my body, but this person’s telling me something different and it’s scary. And it feels like they have all this power to either tell me that I’m good and well.” And there’s that confirmation of goodness with wellness.
Blunt:
And I imagine, too, just as a woman who interacts with the medical industrial complex, that being able to play the role of the gaslighting doctor is probably super cathartic.
Odette:
It really is. And having that feeling of using language that doesn’t feel good, but in a kink situation feels sexy and like total power exchange is really interesting. So taking all of these real-life situations that a lot of us have felt and dealt with, and replaying them, but in control… and helping other people experience that from a kink perspective.
Odette:
Negotiating a medical scene requires a lot of negotiation because a lot of times, people do have a lot of trauma surrounding it. And especially for me going into it as the mock professional… I have to really listen to myself and not just be aware of my own boundaries. Even if a sub is saying that that’s okay with them, I have to still be really…
Blunt:
People don’t talk about tops having boundaries enough.
Odette:
Well because in medical play, it attracts a lot of people who are extreme edge players.
Blunt:
Right, I’m sure you get a lot of actual requests for actual castrations and actual medical procedures that maybe you don’t want to do.
Odette:
No, I conform to RACK, so I don’t do any irreversible procedures. I mean, irreversible is kind of a sticky subject because branding…
Odette:
I encounter people who want to take it way further than is bodily advisable. And so I’ve found that in medical play, I’ve had to assert my boundaries in a much more stringent manner as a top and be like, “I get that you’re turned on by that. We can do psychological play around that.” It’s a good practice of maintaining top boundaries because a lot of the time people will come to me with these intense requests and I have to temper it. Or in the midst of a scene, tempering that and…
Blunt:
Right, especially a decision you make when you’re aroused.
Odette:
Exactly.
Blunt:
Do you find that a lot of people who come to see you for heavy medical play scenes have some sort of specific encounter with the medical system that sticks out for them?
Odette:
Yes and no. I think sometimes a lot of the people that I get who want to be heavy subs in medical situations are doctors.
Blunt:
Wait, so that’s their experience? They’re like, “I take power away from patients all the time… my turn.”
Odette:
Yeah, and I have to be like, “Yeah.” And they can have really low boundaries around stuff because a lot of the time…
Blunt:
But that’s so interesting because I feel like ‘you’ as a patient in real life of the medical industrial complex get to feel empowered through role playing as the one in power in those situations.
So I think it’s really interesting that doctors may oftentimes make up a lot of the clientele of heavy, heavy bottoming for medical play. And I wonder if there’s some sort of process of developing empathy for patients that’s instilled and embedded in that.
Odette:
I wonder, yeah. How does it feel to be on the other side and be in this situation of powerlessness in the face of this inexplicable authority who’s using language that’s inaccessible? Or who’s using…
Blunt:
Do you just make up words?
Odette:
Yeah, like, “I have to remove your pharynx from your mitigated abalone.” “Oh, okay.”
Blunt:
“Oh, yes.
Odette:
A lot of the times the play that I’m doing is purely psychological. They just want to feel exposed and peered at in the cold medical gazey way, which is hot in a way because I’m looking at their intimate parts, but without sexualizing them, supposedly.
Blunt:
Yeah, well I think there is a way of being seen by a doctor. And also for a lot of people, doctor visits are the only time they get touched. So I wonder, as someone on the receiving end of a lot of medical trauma and just being chronically-ill and having a lot of experience interacting with medical systems, as well as being a care coordinator helping people navigate care, I feel really intimately acquainted with the power dynamics of the system.
And it’s actually part of what I do in my best practice training for doctors… is help them become aware of the way that power is manifesting just through the stripping away of identity through putting patients in all of the same clothing and taking away any identifying feature.
You get better medical healthcare if you have a photo of your family in your room. So anything that you can do to make yourself stand out as an individual actually increases your odds of survival. So there’s mechanisms within the medical industrial complex that actually make you less safe. It’s so doctors can disassociate because the work really…
Odette:
Yeah, you want to trigger empathy from this person who is actively suppressing empathy.
Blunt:
Yeah, and the whole system is designed to suppress empathy, especially for marginalized bodies.
Odette:
Exactly. I think that from interacting so much with medical play, it’s led me to do a lot of research on exactly that… of the ways in which Western medicine is so messed up and such a deep fuck-up in terms of how people relate to each other… of reducing a body to parts… and then reducing those parts to functionality.
Blunt:
Right, which if you’re talking about in a scene, that sounds so hot. And I think I’ve said this before: everything that is traumatic about the medical system is so hot in a scene for me.
Odette:
Exactly because it’s so bad like, “This is so naughty, this is naughty on a societal level.”
Blunt:
Exactly, it’s so naughty.
Odette:
It’s so bad.
Blunt:
But yeah, so I think about this a lot and I don’t really do a lot of medical role play. You’re actually the first person whose content that I’ve seen had been like, “Maybe I could be into it.” Because it’s so highly fetishized and well done… kudos.
And yeah, there’s something about that that makes me understand, especially the visual components about it. Because I understand that on a kink level, but just from a personal desire level… but definitely I do think of myself as a scientist, but outside of the confinement of a doctor practice.
My favorite thing to say in the middle of a scene… so I have a scalpel and I’m using medical tools, but it’s highly ritualized and the ritualization of ways of interacting with the body are one way that I find really cathartic from my past negative experiences with the medical system. So using a tool like a scalpel in a way that’s outside of the medical system is sort of how I incorporate medical play into my scenes.
But my favorite line, and I feel it deeply on a visceral level is… I’ll be holding a scalpel and maniacally laughing and be like, “My dad was a dentist, so I’m qualified.” And that’s truly what instills fear, and that I find entertaining.
Odette:
I love it too because it’s also like you’ve inherited the degree somehow.
Blunt:
Yeah, I’m like, “I’m basically qualified.” Isn’t that terrifying to hear?
Odette:
Yeah, I love that because it’s exactly that of everything that’s so terrifying about it is what’s hot.
Blunt:
It is.
Odette:
Yeah, the ritual of it and the ritual of all of the instruments, and then using the instruments, but not in the way that they were intended.
Blunt:
Yeah, there’s something so subversive about that that I love… it brings power to that tool.
Odette:
Exactly. It’s like taking the power away from this monolith of power that’s not used in the most ethical way, and…
Blunt:
Which, when you remove someone’s pharynx from their laparoscopic…
Odette:
Oh, yes, as one does.
Blunt:
As one does. Classic femdom procedure.
But yeah, I think there’s something about subverting that. And personally, I’m like, “I don’t know if I want to…” I have enough interactions with the medical system. And I try and turn any encounter with a doctor into play because that’s my personal coping mechanism.
At points in my life, I’d be going to three doctors a week as my regular practice. It just gets overwhelming and first I want to be seen as an individual and as a patient…
But I think that for me, making myself stand out in those situations is something that’s always really come naturally to me. I’ve definitely shot back at doctors. They’re like, “Here, put on this gown.” I’m like, “I’m literally wearing a bathrobe, do you just want to take away my individuality?” And they’re like, “Please just put on the gown, ma’am.”
Odette:
I mean, that’s also a coping and survival mechanism.
Blunt:
Yeah, it is. And it allows me to more safely move through that space in a way that harms me slightly less. I also love wearing garters and thigh-highs for medical procedures. All the doctors remember my name.
Odette:
You’re like, “Oh, it’s me again.”
Blunt:
Yeah, “It’s that girl that makes us really uncomfortable.”
Odette:
That’s also a power dynamic shift that is for you.
Blunt:
Is it. It helps me reclaim that power. And I don’t know if I’ve told this story but I had a colonoscopy when I was 18 and they gave me Valium before the rest of the sedation. And I was very nervous. Then after the Valium, I was like, “Oh, do whatever you want to me. Take me.” And then as they’re administering the Fentanyl and the Versed, I was like, “Oh, I always knew my first time with anal would involve this many drugs.” And the doctor goes, “Well, at least you know my name.” And then every time I went in, I got excellent healthcare from that point forward.
Odette:
Oh my God, that is amazing.
Blunt:
Yeah. He was like, “Oh, I tell that story all the time at gastroenterology conventions and everyone asks for your number.” And I’m like, “Fuck HIPAA, give it to them. I want health insurance.
Odette:
Oh my God. I love that. That’s so good, too. Just making that situation fun in a way that gives you power and also sets you apart in terms of standards of care. Yeah, that’s an important way to deal with doctors, esp…
Blunt:
I think so. Make them uncomfortable.
Odette:
Yeah, make them uncomfortable… make them squeam.
Blunt:
Yeah. I also had this experience… I had an eye infection that wouldn’t go away and so when I was going to urgent care, they were asking if it was okay for their resident to come in and I was like, “Sure, that’s fine.”
So the resident was like, “Okay, I’m going to touch your eye now, is that okay?” I’m like, “Yeah.” So he did the examination. And then the attending did the examination and afterwards I was like, “Your resident asked my consent before touching me, which I think you could probably learn from your resident.”
And my partner was in the room with me and was just like, “Oh.”
Odette:
Good lord.
Blunt:
Yeah.
Odette:
Yeah, when you’re on the chair, suddenly you lose all autonomy. I got something in my eye last week and I went to the ophthalmologist and as soon as I was in the chair and the doctor was in the room, he was just poking and prodding and not…
Blunt:
You’re an object.
Odette:
Yeah, exactly. And they’re so desensitized to the fact that you’re a person that they just interact with you in this really cold way. He was just flipping my eyelid and scraping it out, and I was like, “Oh, oh, I guess I’d better hold still.”
Blunt:
Right, and I feel like that’s kind of gaslighting too. Like, “This is an uncomfortable thing, where the fuck is the…”
Odette:
Exactly.
Blunt:
My other work is as a doula, so that’s the other way that I’ve interacted with the medical system, which is the attempt to be the opposite of that cold institution… and bring that warmth and care into the room.
And I worked as an abortion doula primarily, and it became so integrated into part of the flow of the clinic. And the doctors and nurses loved us because the patient was able to get that type of care while the doctor was still able to focus on the procedure.
Everyone was sort of acting as a doula, it was a very great clinic, but having one specific person there for that purpose I think just really…
All of the nurses and staff at that clinic said that it’s just so integral to the way that they run now, that they couldn’t do it without the doula. And I’m like, “Yes, all doctors should have doulas, all care coordination should have doulas, call doctors for your friends. It’s hard, it’s traumatic.”
Odette:
No, that’s such an important… Because not having that, you just get swept up in the process of it… and the fake normality of the situation.
Blunt:
Yeah like, “This is a normal thing that I’m supposed to be okay with.”
Odette:
Which is terrifying. You’re just like, “Okay, I have to do this because it’s for my health.” And without someone to intercede on your behalf and be like, “Hey, could you clarify that? Or could you say it in layman’s terms?” Or like, “Whoa, whoa, whoa, is this necessary?”
Blunt:
Yeah, the word “doula” actually comes from the word for “slave”.
Odette:
Really?
Blunt:
So I think that that also clearly changes the power dynamic of what Western medicine is. And I think it helps bring some of that ritual that was taken away with the Westernization of medical care.
Especially birth, birth care, which for the United States, we have one of the highest infant and mother mortality rates… in the States. And that goes up if you’re a Black person giving birth, significantly.
And having a doula in the room significantly statistically reduces your chances of dying in childbirth by having someone who’s literally just there advocating.
And they’ve done studies that even if it’s just a person sitting in a chair doing nothing other than knitting for the entire birth, it reduces the mortality rate of the mother significantly because then there’s someone there to check the doctor.
Even if they’re not doing anything other than physically being present. That presence is enough to make the doctor see that person as human.
Odette:
Yeah, and position them in a community.
Blunt:
Yeah, yeah, as accountable to someone.
Odette:
Yeah, because the thing that happens is you’re just an individual, in a system. But if there’s someone else there kind of advocating and giving you context… which is so fucked up that that’s necessary and that we’ve created a system that requires that for survival. That’s fucked.
Blunt:
It’s so fucked up.
Actually, something interesting because I hadn’t thought about it, but something that I always tell my submissives is that they need to do their own work to make their own community so that I’m accountable to a community that’s not necessarily just my own.
And I think it’s very similar because of those power dynamics… doctors should fucking want to be accountable. Then I also think it’s extra fucked up in the States because we live in a litigatory society where debilitating lawsuits are a really real thing, and so much of medical care is to reduce the chances of being sued.
And in other countries, that’s not the case, so they’re able to hold off on certain… I’m just speaking from birth… they’re more willing to hold off on inducing labor because if something goes wrong, they are less likely to be sued.
So we have all of these interventions in birth work that are unnecessary and solely there to protect the doctor legally, and so they push it really aggressively because they don’t want to get sued.
Odette:
God, that’s so frustrating. Of course, yeah, but none of it’s actually to make the experience better or safer for the individual… it’s to protect the doctor from litigation. It all just comes down to…
Blunt:
Yeah, or their schedule. More cesarean sections happen as shifts change. Because the doctor’s are like “Let’s just fucking finish this.”
So it’s not medically necessary, but it’s inconveniencing the doctor making their golf appointment.
Odette:
God, yeah. There’s so much broken about it that it’s immeasurably fucked up.
Blunt:
Truly, and so much to eroticize because it’s so… it’s so fucked up. Just like many systems of oppression.
Odette:
Exactly, yeah. And the eroticization of horrible things that happen to us that we want to change is incredibly interesting. And I feel like medical fetishism is deeply entrenched in that zone of…
Blunt:
Yeah, it’s such an archetypical way of embodying power and stripping someone of that power.
Odette:
And taking that loss of power to the extreme. And kind of role playing situations of the intense complication of that power.
Blunt:
Yeah. I feel like it’s a space for so much psychodynamic work to take place, and I’m sure is super cathartic.
Odette:
Yeah, it’s fun because I feel like with kink work I’ll be like, “These are really elevated ways of thinking about it.” And then I also will just be like, “And I’m just doing it sometimes.”
So sometimes I’ll really dive deep into the theory of something. But then other times I’ll be like, “Okay, it’s fine just to practice without really overthinking it.” But…
Blunt:
No totally. I mean, yes, sometimes it’s just fun, sometimes this is just a way of embodying power that’s fun.
Odette:
Yeah, but it’s always important to have a deeper understanding and synthesis of all of those things in the back of your mind when you’re doing it. Even if it’s just a run of the mill session where you’re a sexy doctor.
Blunt:
Awareness into a scene… a scene can just be fun and it can only be fun if the practitioners are also aware of how these things take place outside of the space that they’ve made for the scene… doesn’t mean you need to bring it into it.
Odette:
Mm-hmm, yeah because I don’t generally go into all of my different feelings about the scene with my clients. But it definitely informs how I structure the scene and the efficacy with which I can get into the headspace that they want to experience. Because the deeper I understand the psychological mind fuck of medical play, the more effectively I can do it.
Blunt:
Yeah, totally, yeah. I think there is that balance, too. I definitely have the tendency to intellectualize things as a coping mechanism and just because of interests. But I think that it’s also a way to have an embodied experience of power through that structure. Yeah, I’m convinced. Sign me up.
Odette:
Okay. Yeah, it’s such a weird fun thing and it attracts so many different types of people because people can come at it from a…
Blunt:
Will you stop for a sec?
Odette:
Oh, oops.
Blunt:
Okay, you’re back. Okay, it comes from…
Odette:
It can come from three different areas.
Of someone who’s really into it for the humiliation of it because it’s also the ultimate clothed female/nude male (CFNM). Because sometimes I’ll be in full PPE and completely covered, and examining someone who’s naked… and really getting inside them. And I have an endoscope where I can physically look into the body. Yeah, it’s disgusting. It’s great. So people can just be into the humiliation of it and the exposure.
Or it can also have elements of submission that are more associated with classical femdom of like, “I wouldn’t be into this, but I want you to do it because I feel submissive to you.” And that thing…
Blunt:
What’s the third one? I’m so excited for this because this is how I feel about my feminization sessions. What’s the third one? Tell me.
Odette:
The third one is just pure masochism and people who are just like, “This can be so painful and I love pain. So whatever… the role play isn’t super important. You can wear a doctor coat, I don’t really give a crap, but I want needles going in weird places.”
Blunt:
Would you say that a lot of your doctor clients are more on the humiliation side?
Odette:
Yeah.
Blunt:
So my working theory for the feminization sessions that I do is also three parts.
The first part being that you find being a woman humiliating and you want to be humiliated.
The second is that you think that women are submissive, so being feminized is the only way that you can take a sexually submissive receptive role.
The third is that you’re trans and that you feel less dysphoric when you’re dressed as a woman. So you are more able to take on that role because you’re embodied within your sexuality.
I think sometimes it’s not an explicit line, but there is something there about teasing apart the humiliation, the submission and what just makes you feel embodied, what allows you to feel relaxed.
Odette:
That’s that’s such a good point.
I have a client, one of my favorite clients. Her name is Sophia, she’s well-known on my platforms. But she’s a crossdresser and really into heavy medical play. And we do a lot of speculum play. It’s always a well-woman exam.
So she completely transforms herself… she goes to the bathroom and does her full transformation, and then the scene starts with my examination.
I might get a little emotional. I had the most like…
So I do a thing where I take the balls and I put them over the penis, and then I staple it shut into a little taco.
Blunt:
I’ve done that with super glue before!
Odette:
Oh, I love it, super glue is great.
Blunt:
Yeah.
Odette:
But she’s not into sharps, but she was like, “I really want to try this. I trust you. I trust you’ll be receptive if it’s too much.”
And I was like, “Of course, let’s try it. If it’s too much, we can recalibrate. It’s fine.”
But we did the thing and made her a vaginal mound, and I did the whole thing. And then I had a mirror that you can look into on the ceiling. And I showed her and I showed her her new pussy. And she cried, and we had this moment of just crying and holding each other with her…
Blunt:
You’re going to make me cry now.
Odette:
I know, it was just one of those things where in her regular life, she is of a certain age and has a lot going on in her life to the point where she can’t transition.
Blunt:
Right, she doesn’t feel it’s something she can do. Yeah.
Odette:
Yeah, and so it’s such an emotional experience for both of us to have this play that can be this cathartic expression of gender that she’s always wanted to have, and not had access to.
Blunt:
Yeah, wow. Yeah, I feel like exploring gender and medical play has so much potential there to unpack things and figure things out about yourself. I just got the chills thinking about that because the medical system is exceptionally traumatic for trans folks.
Odette:
Yeah, exploring that from that perspective especially for people that have had really terrible, antiquated experiences with the medical profession.
Blunt:
Yeah, I have a very similar story about someone who’s very dear to me as well. They identify as genderqueer. But we were turning the scrotum into a vaginal mound… and we formulated vaginal lips with the super glue and excess skin… and we both had a very emotional response.
And I definitely did it from a less medical perspective and more from a ritualistic feminization transformation, coming from a very ancient femdom, religious tradition.
So it’s interesting to think about the similarities between the things that we do and how they can elicit that emotional response. It’s a very similar sounding emotional response in people, through whatever path is carved out into their brain that it…
Odette:
Exactly, like creating a new neural pathway and a body euphoria because knowing that I had a moment of co-creating body euphoria for a person… I was just like, “Oh my God…
Blunt:
Oh my gosh, I love that, that’s so beautiful. I think that’d be a really great place to end this… on a really beautiful…
Odette:
I think so too, yeah. That’s that ultimate and best-case scenario in medical play… and play in general… is to make people feel good and empowered about their bodies.
Blunt:
Truly, what more could you ask for? That’s so beautiful, thank you for sharing that.
Odette:
Thank you for having this conversation, this has been…
Blunt:
Yeah.